Curse

LifeInfusion · Sep 22, 2010, 12:14 AM // 00:14

I haven't touched my monk in ages but I see UA is all the rage these days. What is so great about it? You need to spec 12 in divine Favor for it to outperform Healer's boon and it saps 1 pip of energy regen. I can see for the teleporting res (which is also bar compression) ...but the healing bonus seems overrated given that I'd rather have 1/2 cast time to catch spikes easier.

Maybe in the Deep... but everywhere in HM too?

If protection prayers had more heals, then I could see the reasoning. (I saw someone running stuff like Spirit Bond with it, but I don't know how well it works.)

As it is now, a 14 Healing prayers WoH heals for 94 even if >50% HP. That means you need 63base heal to compete with it, never mind 3 recharge. Healer's boon can compete at >50% HP since it has half cast time and orison is 67, but when <50% WoH also gives 109.

Essence Snow · Sep 22, 2010, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I haven't touched my monk in ages but I see UA is all the rage these days. What is so great about it? You need to spec 12 in divine Favor for it to outperform Healer's boon and it saps 1 pip of energy regen. I can see for the teleporting res (which is also bar compression) ...but the healing bonus seems overrated given that I'd rather have 1/2 cast time to catch spikes easier.

Maybe in the Deep... but everywhere in HM too?

If protection prayers had more heals, then I could see the reasoning. (I saw someone running stuff like Spirit Bond with it, but I don't know how well it works.)

As it is now, a 14 Healing prayers WoH heals for 94 even if >50% HP. That means you need 63base heal to compete with it, never mind 3 recharge. Healer's boon can compete at >50% HP since it has half cast time and orison is 67, but when <50% WoH also gives 109.

There is your answer.....an instant 100% res

Naughty Nurse · Sep 22, 2010, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Its very easy to state that UA is for bad monks whod rather rez then heal. The behavior of random people in pugs sometimes asks for a quick response... That could mean a fast heal or a rez when they leeroy themselves.

Orison is a bad example.. Dwaynas kiss (when hexed or enchanted) gets an awesome boost by UA, and using divine healing (linked to divine) gives a good partywide heal for the whole team at just 5 energy. Cure hex (in healing) and mend conditon (in prot) also have nice potential with UA. Add a little selfless spirit, and your good to go.

UA is a nice skill if you use it well. Imo it beats WoH.

Vlad · Sep 22, 2010, 01:01 AM // 01:01

The ONLY reason i use UA is for instent rez... otherwise HB for the win! Or LoD

LifeInfusion · Sep 22, 2010, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I am just asking because I always run WoH since it got buffed some time around Nightfall.

When I PUG it seems whenever a monk plays UA someone has to die, without fail. The bars usually have divine Healing and/or heaven's delight, patient spirit, dwayna's kiss, and cure hex if lucky. UA also buffs dismiss condition and the heal from shielding hands , Mend ailment/Mend condition. I see gimmicky things like watchful healing on occasion and Ethereal light (which is better on HB) too.

As far as orison: I know it sucks, but Orison is the benchmark skill. On my monk heros and when I play my monk, I usually have WoH, cure hex, dwayna's kiss from the healing line. (Patient Spirit/Words of Comfort sometimes too.)

Maybe I am just old fashioned. I still haven't caught on the patient spirit train yet, I'm stuck in the oldschool mentality of running hybrid monks (back when boonprots were popular) with SoA and prot spirit (and occasionally Spirit Bond, Guardian). I tried blessed light too, but it saps so much energy so I just empathic removal on my paragon hero. ZB doesn't work well on heros either and doesn't heal as heavy as Spirit Light...

AndroBubbles · Sep 22, 2010, 02:02 AM // 02:02

In terms of encouraging skilled play, there are two sides to UA.

On one hand, it increases healing from any spell a monk casts that has direct healing, sans vigorous spirit and seed of life for some reason. This gives it a decent amount of versatility, as some people have already mentioned.

On the other hand, to me it seems that most of the UA monks I come across don't know how to use those skills effectively in the first place. Why go with UA prot if you can't preprot worth a damn? Your allies die. Sure, you can insta-res them, but that's still 15% dp. Why would I need the instant res when I can choose an elite that prevents the need for a res in the first place? When I prot, I use things like aura of faith, to proactively prevent death, rather than an elite that you enter with under the assumption that your allies will die.

Eragon Selene · Sep 22, 2010, 02:12 AM // 02:12

UA+arcane mimicry+HB > WoH

You get a huge healing increase by copying HB from another monk + instant res. Orison with this set up can heal for as much or more then WoH.

Sankt Hallvard · Sep 22, 2010, 02:14 AM // 02:14

HB gives the largest amount of heal output available. It also speeds up your casting so catching spikes is also quite easy. It's probably the best elite for the average monk out there. The obvious downside is that it's hard to spec in prot.

WoH is the old standard. Heal is good, but when the pressure kicks in it's gonna be hard to keep up when the pve allies bunch up in aoe. If you have a team that helps mitigate some pressure it's quite superior if you know what you're doing. The reason is you get more bar flexibility with prots and maybe secondary skills.

UA. You don't like this? It's amazing. Where your WoH gives an ok heal this little baby heals for 450-600 in the blink of an eye. This at the expense of a little DP, but it's not like morale boosts are hard to come by in pve. It also refills the character's entire blue bar. It's also better at pumping partyheals than WoH, though much like HB harder to spec in prot. But if you want to max this skill's potential you have to adopt to a playstyle of letting people intentionally die here and there. Requires a different mindset I guess, the same way I see people slapping seed of life on the tank taking heavy damage while the rest of the team is actually at full health.

Del · Sep 22, 2010, 02:21 AM // 02:21

as far as pve goes, HB > UA > WoH.

Boon makes your heals strong and fast, with long-lasting enchant that recharges fairly quickly and doesn't burden your energy. UA is good for monks that aren't good at monking, and outside of PvP, these days WoH is just meh.

AndroBubbles · Sep 22, 2010, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

HB gives the largest amount of heal output available. It also speeds up your casting so catching spikes is also quite easy. It's probably the best elite for the average monk out there. The obvious downside is that it's hard to spec in prot.

WoH is the old standard. Heal is good, but when the pressure kicks in it's gonna be hard to keep up when the pve allies bunch up in aoe. If you have a team that helps mitigate some pressure it's quite superior if you know what you're doing. The reason is you get more bar flexibility with prots and maybe secondary skills.

UA. You don't like this? It's amazing. Where your WoH gives an ok heal this little baby heals for 450-600 in the blink of an eye. This at the expense of a little DP, but it's not like morale boosts are hard to come by in pve. It also refills the character's entire blue bar. It's also better at pumping partyheals than WoH, though much like HB harder to spec in prot. But if you want to max this skill's potential you have to adopt to a playstyle of letting people intentionally die here and there. Requires a different mindset I guess, the same way I see people slapping seed of life on the tank taking heavy damage while the rest of the team is actually at full health.

You're saying that we should adopt a policy of occasionally defeating the purpose of a monk so that we can get things done... eventually? This encourages skilled play how? It's this attitude that has people screaming for HB and UA without any sort of decent protting ability.

Next, I'm going to just say that a heal for 600 is overkill. If you consistently need that much healing power from a single spell, your energy is going to die, and so will your team. Why would I heal for 600 when I can maintain my party's health through proactive protting and assorted healing skills like WoH? I would justify using a UA monk if you have a dedicated prot, or at least a hybrid monk as your other support character, but I've yet to meet a UA monk that could outperform a good player who uses their skills correctly.

Sankt Hallvard · Sep 22, 2010, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

You're saying that we should adopt a policy of occasionally defeating the purpose of a monk so that we can get things done... eventually? This encourages skilled play how? It's this attitude that has people screaming for HB and UA without any sort of decent protting ability.

Next, I'm going to just say that a heal for 600 is overkill. If you consistently need that much healing power from a single spell, your energy is going to die, and so will your team. Why would I heal for 600 when I can maintain my party's health through proactive protting and assorted healing skills like WoH? I would justify using a UA monk if you have a dedicated prot, or at least a hybrid monk as your other support character, but I've yet to meet a UA monk that could outperform a good player who uses their skills correctly.

What is the purpose of a monk in your opinion? Redbar to the best of his ability? Or help his team deal as much damage and kill the foes as quickly as possible?

If you agree with me that the latter is superior then you may also be able to see scenarios where it could be beneficial to let someone die. A melee player could be hexed, blinded. The ele could be running low on energy, same with any caster for that matter. Or you could find yourself in a situation where 2 people are taking heavy dmg at the same time. Heal one, insta-res the other. Lots of energy saved.

I'm not disputing the last part of your post, though. As a lone monk UA might be hard. But whenever you can run 2 monks, UA should be one of them.

FoxBat · Sep 22, 2010, 03:39 AM // 03:39

There's only one real reason to run HB, and that is heal party. Well you can still toss out fairly efficient heals such as patient + kiss, but HP is the reason you would run it over woh.

UA is a little different thanks to the insta-rez power. DP is just not that relevant in many PvE situations, between heightened monster experience and various consumables. It is not like the inexorible build of DP in GvG. An instant rez can be very similar to never having died at all.

Chthon · Sep 22, 2010, 04:30 AM // 04:30

With the notable exception of the Deep, where a teleporting rez is needed, UA's only use is to prop up bad teams that cannot get their defensive act together. It's a bandaid for whatever problem is making you fail at staying alive.

Also, it certainly doesn't help that 90% of UA builds are running ubercrap like Divine Healing.

As for Arcane Mimicry on a HB monk to get UA+HB on the same person, yeah, it gets you amazing healing power, but at the cost of having basically zero prot in your backline. There's a reason that glaiveway can't do HM you know....

Anime Divine · Sep 22, 2010, 09:06 AM // 09:06

lol glaive can do hm its just not called glaiveway just frost way

if you want to preprotect seed of life is the best way to go.
ua+hb rocks

ive seen ua saving entire teams like if half goes down you can res like 3 people with full health and mana bars.
most people dont know how to play because they dont cancel ua the moment someone goes down... and you are called fail UA so deal with it.

Luminarus · Sep 22, 2010, 09:54 AM // 09:54

WoH is overrated in pve these days, because most of the time a team is going to have widespread damage rather then concentrated. In that case, buffing your heal party is going to make a much greater impact then wohing one of possibly 4 - 8 allies who are under 50%. If you are facing single target damage, then seed of life, + patient + dwaynas is more then enough to keep them alive until enough of the enemies are dealt with.

Now as to UA vs HB. In pve, AI can rupt 1/2 seconds as easily as 1 seconds, most of the time. Therefore the cast time increase of HB is sort of irrelevant. At 16 DF (which is wat UA should be cast at, maybe a couple less if you are devoting some points to hybriding with prot and heal, but remember you can swap headsets in pve) Your getting like +60% give or take, outdoing HB. So for 1/4 of your regen (ignoring any emanagement skills you might have), you get an instant rez, and higher heals, and due to the bar compression can throw in an extra emanagement skill to handle the cost of UA. Its just superior.

This is all taken in regards to the current state of the game where prots are to a greater or lesser extent irrelevant due to imbagons, cons, and shadowform.

maxxfury · Sep 22, 2010, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Ap

...........

Xenomortis · Sep 22, 2010, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Unyielding Aura is good in one case.
If you have an Ele with Ether Renewal, Infuse and Prot Spirit, you don't need to bring the big prots or spike heal you get with a WoH Hybrid.
But an ER Ele cannot perform any amount of AoE heals or light healing to mop up pressure. These are still important.
For this job, Unyielding Aura beats Healer's Boon since it boosts Heaven's Delight, Divine Healing and Seed of Life and a 1 second cast Heal Party isn't too important and anyway, UA boosts heals by a little bit more.
It's also a fast casting res which is always nice for dealing with the odd death half way through something important.

If however the team doesn't have an ER Ele, then the case for UA diminishes. You need strong prots and heals first, since these save lives. A really good WoH Monk may be able to beat an ER Ele since they have a bit more utility (the capacity for removal and Aegis) but I have not ever played with what I would call a "really good Monk", so most of the time if you do have a WoH Hybrid in your team already, you'd be better off running WoH yourself.

With UA around I don't really see any case for Healer's Boon.
And UA works on a Smiter hero too.

GwOxygen · Sep 22, 2010, 12:13 PM // 12:13

I prefer HB over UA, simply because I cast sooo much faster with HB. I would never pick UA over HB, but that's just me. I see why people want to run UA, mainly because it's a great rez! With that kind of super rez that can be used IN battle a death won't slow you down/put you in an annoying position anymore. UA makes a mistake easy forgivable and that's why it's very popular in PUG's, where you play with people you don't know and the quality of the general PUG is well...bad.

I will still keep running my HB bar because the casts are 50% faster, which in some cases can turn out to be a life saver!

UA Mimicry on a HB monk > All.

Mashiyu · Sep 22, 2010, 12:47 PM // 12:47

UA is the only viable in-combat res, imo. If a resurrected team member has not enough energy to fulfill his role again (or dies again a few seconds later) he could have stayed dead.

And it's possible to play an UA hybrid - I usually play one if I'm the only monk in HM missions with only 4 or 6 team members (UA, some prots and gift of health as the only heal skill.) Sure, it could be done with an WoH hybrid, but I feel safer with UA.

@UA+HB: I don't like it. If you need 300ish heals every second, there's something wrong with the team. Prot > unreasonable high overheal.

Meridon · Sep 22, 2010, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Many of the above posters show a strong preference for HB over UA. I disagree.

If you run hybrid, UA is the way to go.
If you run prot with additional party of player heals, UA is the way to go.
If you run pure prot, you take neither.
If you run pure heal, you take UA/HB Mimicry.

UA is the one skill that almost never leaves my bar as monk. Not because of the rez, but because it synergizes with 75%+ of all monk skills. It works great in almost any situation, with any build. HB makes you are pure redbarrer with little room for utility. UA has practically the same amount of redbarring potential, with lotsof room for utility. Also, Rezzing is not the main purpose of this skill. It does, however, have one big advantage: bar compression. Instead wasting an extra slot yourself, or even having 2+ teammates waste a slot on Flesh of My Flesh, you are now almost completely covered in terms of rezzing, without sacrificing any skill slots directly.

All in all, if you're serious about HB, you should have no problem running Mimicry with it and copying UA from the Prot/party heal hybrid.